Walt, how could you poison Brock like that?

I'm in the empire business.

Did you ever try the Los Pollos Hermanos breakfast chicken Chalupa combo meal? You know before .....boom?

Enjoy your meal.

at least he keeps the two in balance.

It will be interesting to see what they passed up, especially in this economy where people are just struggling to find work.

The process for Chicago is different. Under that process, the parties were required to submit the dispute to a "fact Finder." Ed Benn, a well respected arbitrator was selected for that role.

After Mr. Benn issued his report, the parties had a certain period in which to accept or reject it. Both parties chose to reject it. After that, the report was made public, but the statute doesn't call for the IELRB to post it.

You can probably find it on line.

The mayor and his hand-picked board have some work to do. This doesn't look like a teachers group that will cave any time soon. He won't be able to spin his way out of this one.

They passed up 16% raises over the next 4 years. It was actually bigger if you add in the compounding affect.

Rob, i heard they make 76K...BEFORE benefits are factored in.

16%, on avg., would bring them up over 85K.

the avg. FAMILY's income in Chicago is just 47K.

Why do they deserve so much money? is it because they are so effective at teaching kids? What do the results tell us?

Really Lennie? A right wing website? Yes, I'm sure it's considered all the facts and has reported honestly. Lennie, you would really be much more credible if you used sources that were credible. Just my opinion.

Videos can be edited. Just ask Hannity or Beck or just about anyone on Fox.

@Sully - actually, it was the left wing that was caught editing the videos - remember the 9/11 call for the shooting in Florida?

Rational- Fox has been caught numerous times editing. As has Breitbart's wannabe (can't remember his name at the moment). Utube videos can be easily edited to make them say what the poster wants them to say. I'm not saying lefties don't do it too, but that doesn't excuse righties, or anyone, from misleading through videos.

LOL. It's always funny to see the blatant attempt to tell people not read a news source. It appears you don't want people finding out the truth. You should read from all sides of the spectrum to learn the truth. It's the only way to find out the truth.

Again with the LOL, Lennie? You can't come up with something a little more adult-like? I don't mind reading the other side; I just prefer it be truthful. I can't say that about your links. Post something factual from a credible source.

I am just waiting for the adults to show up to have an honest discussion instead of the petty bickering and personal attacks.

you're right, Walter. It tells us that this is a guy who can think on his own and doesn't need mainstream media or union reps to tell him what to think.

Is that so? Search "tea party rally" on YouTube sometime and get back to me. It will keep you laughing for hours. Well, maybe not you, but someone of average intelligence.

ok Walter. done.

let's see... i saw thousands of people speaking about the need for smaller gov't., and also read that when they left the area they were at, they cleaned up after themselves.

They did not punch any cops or get arrested for blocking any streets.

Is that what keeps you laughing for hours? Maybe you overestimate your level of intelligence?

You want to see something to get you laughing (or crying if you care about the kids and their education)? Watch some footage of the CTU protesting today. What will be especially interesting is when you see random teachers getting interviewed and asked questions that they haven't been given talking points from which to answer the interviewers.

I'd like to see somebody interview some teachers and ask:

"how many members are there in Congress, as a whole"?

"how many House of Representative members are selected from each voting district"?

"Who is the vice-president of the USA right now"?

"How many terms did Barack Obama serve as United States Senator"?

"If you get caught sexting a 15 year old student and get put on suspension, how many months do you get your full salary for sitting at home before you have to start teaching again"?

My guess is that most teachers would answer the last question correctly, every time, but that the rest of the questions would get answered correctly maybe 60% of the time.

Your guess? Why would we care about "your guess"? That's just flat out rude and insulting to a very hard working profession. But, hey, at least now we know where you're coming from.

@Walter, glad to see you are so enlightened that you can be bothered with any opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Did you even read the article and see the videos?

Here is another group I helped found: http://forourchildrensfuture.com/ We now have over 20 school districts adopted where citizens have stepped up to help bring fiscal sustainability to their district to ensure ALL children have access to a quality education.

"insulting a hard working profession"

We're talking about Chicago Public School teachers, Walter. These people are greedy, incompetent and care a lot more about themselves than they do their students.

Yes, i want to see a reporter ask basic questions of some teachers to show how many stupid teachers we have in CPS. The same way that they were asking teachers up in Madison last year when they were going bananas about Scott Walker.

Union teachers= failing students.

Well I don't see many failing students in the suburbs so this must be an "urban" problem, right Dan?

In Niles Dist 219 (Skokie) which is a suburb, only 63.20% meet or exceed standards, which means almost 37% are failing. This is in spite of the district spending $35K per student. http://iirc.niu.edu/District.aspx?districtid=05016219017

Oh yes Dan. I bet every single Illinois, why, not just Illinois but every state's teachers, do nothing in their classrooms but read porno and text each other. And of course, take two-hour lunch breaks and are in the bathroom every five minutes fixing their hair and makeup (the male teachers are obviously not doing that- they're watching or reading about sports no doubt).

i agree with your sentiments Rob, especially when you say that "..principals need to be able to hire and FIRE teachers.."

tell that to the Chicago Teacher's Union. They don't want principals to be able to fire them for ANYTHING. They are union, after all.

I agree Rob. Everyone wants to associate teachers with union, but they are two separate entities for the most part. Most teachers I know don't pay any attention to their unions unless it's time to renew the contract, and even then, they don't get much say. Teachers around here have to join the union whether they want to or not, so stop blaming every single teacher for what happens in the unions. Teachers want to teach. They don't go into it for the politics.

The teachers are the victims of their own unions. It's a shame how union bosses treat the young teachers especially when it comes to the lack of and misinformation they give to the rank and file teachers. Preventing strikes would be a good step in combating this problem.

Lennie, if not for the right to strike, employers could treat their employees any way they want. Make them work 12 hour or longer days with no overtime pay, not provide lunch breaks, have them work in unsafe conditions (such as coal miners), fire them without due cause, and any number of other conditions not fair to the worker. Is that what you want for your daughters? Working under any conditions that could be harmful? That's the problem when one is short-sighted. The benefits of what unions can do is overshadowed by the negatives presented in the press and by people like you. Make the teachers sound greedy and not hard working. That's one of the most disturbing fallacies in a history of American fallacies.

Teachers are a profession that is needed by the community just like Police and Firemen. Police and Firemen do no have the right to strike here in IL. The teachers can be put under the same provisions. It's really that simple. Not sure how you would think a teacher who can't strike, they'll be forced to go into a coal mine to dig coal.

Sully....nice comparison...teachers and coal miners. I have never been part of a union and never been subjected to any of the treatment you blather on about. Last I checked this was the 21st century. Prior to all the regulation that employers are subject to today, unions were a necessity to combat the things you mentioned. Today unions are only about power and money, just like politcal parties.

If you want to think CPS teachers would be subjected to the same maltreatment as coal miners 100 years ago without thier precious union, knock yourself out...but it just ain't so.

So you don't think a teacher can teach at age 60 or above? Are you aware that legislation was passed in Illinois two years ago requiring that newly hired teachers MUST work to the age of 67 to collect full pension benefits? Maybe you should inform the state legislature of this! Truly they are not aware!

Jerry, I'm not referring to coal miners of 100 years ago. I'm talking about right now. With no regulations and no chance for refusing to work under dangerous conditions, miners are at the mercy of their employers. That's also what I was referring to in regard to teachers. I'm not comparing the two types of work. I really do need to be less figurative and more concrete around here, don't I?

Yes Lennie....there is a huge deficit.....because of mismanagement by the former king Daley. Didn't pay his share of pension costs.....actually "borrowed" money for the fund when he first took over the schools.....NEVER repaid...... And now the money, by law is due. Oh, I forgot to balme the teachers for this as well, since they are the only ones who have supported their retirees' pensions though automatice deducutions for many years now. Thank goodness they have savvy investors and thier board of directors looking out for their interests as no one else really seems to care, do they?

But it's not just about the money in this case. The board did reneg on its four percent pay raise and has only given two percent, but thats not the main issue from what I've read. It seems that the teachers want 1) the board and Emanuel to stop trying to run the district as a business instead of an educational system. I agree with that. Learning is not a for-profit industry, 2) not use standardized tests to evaluate teachers. Again I agree. These tests were not developed to evaluate one's teaching. They were designed to evaluate where the student is at one point in time and where that same student is at a later point. How well the student is progressing. It is not adequate to measure a teachers performance based on the aggregate scores of all the students. The tests also measure how good the student is at taking this kind of test. An honor student can bomb a test if the conditions are right. Tests measure individual points in time, not how the student is actually learning in school. 3) CPT would prefer infrastructure funds and funds for services such as counseling, social work, and school psychology instead of the board's pet projects. They would also like funding for specialized training- if they must make mandated changes, then they should be trained in how to do so. And 4) they would like more adequate health care. So you can see, it's more than just the money.

Why collective bargaining with public employee Unions is not healthy and will destroy America:

http://wizbangblog.com/m/2011/02/24/collective-bargaining-and-public-employee-unions.html

The big taxpayer rip-off has now been exposed: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/average-sf-pensions-are-higher-than-salaries

@Sully - Learning may not be "for profit", but it can't be run at a billion dollar annual loss either. There is only so much money.

Salary is not the main issue. So sorry you didn't get that. There should be accountability, but not by standardized tests.

No, schools are not a business. Public schools cannot pick and choose the students they will accept. This is what private schools and charter schools do.

When someone figures out an objective way to measure teacher effectiveness, there may be room for discussion concerning the issue of merit pay. However, as of today, its been well documented that the same teacher can have widely differing results from year to year depending on the students who happen to be assigned to their class.

Salary often isn't the main issue. Bargaining for a new contract is often one of the only chances that teachers have to make Boards of Educations aware of the problems in their schools. Then the same people who bash teachers for supposedly being greedy write in about how educational issues shouldn't be brought up when the contract is bargained.

@Mark - maybe if we moved away from the democratic / liberal idea of "social promotion" and held the students to standards, you would be able to judge teachers better. If they held the students back WHEN THEY START FAILING vs. just passing them along to be the next teachers problem, we would have a start. We could start holding the parents accountable as well. It is difficult to blame an 8th grade teacher if the student is still reading at the 3rd grade level, but someone needs to look at those 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th grade teachers that just pushed the child ahead.

One of the reasons why teachers do not want principals to choose thier teachers is because of graft, kickbacks, and favoratism. This is why it was changed years ago and we should not go back to this system.

Mark, my disagreement with that is that some school districts require their teachers to be in the union whether they want to be or not. I also think there are teachers who disagree with a union's stance, but do not feel safe in expressing that view. However, I do believe unions are necessary. I wish they were held more accountable sometimes.

Since when are school boards tax consumers? School Board members aren't paid and no North Shore district doesn't have school board members managing their negotiations. They also have lawyers present. More untruths from those that have no idea of what they're talking about or how bargaining really works.

Most school boards have no problem with handing huge amounts of money to administrators and consultants. When it comes to the people in the central office the mantra is that they have to stay competitive.That's how we get $250,000 Superintendents and $350,000 Business managers. We also get $200,000 consulting contracts for public relations people.

When it comes to compensating those in the classrooms, all of a sudden teachers are greedy and should be expected to take a vow of poverty.

School districts always claim poverty when their teacher contract expires. After that, if you pay attention, we then hear about how they're in good shape due to the brilliance of the administration. Amazing how that works.

No jobs? Well since teachers are so well compensated and you need a high-paying job....go SUB! If you do, I am sure you would not choose a city school where you might need to fight for your life just to get to the door! These nay-sayers need to be the fly on the wall in an urban school setting. I am sure they would applaud the teachers as heros. A friend of mine has a son who is a beginning teacher and was assigned to teach a 45 minute summer school class in Chicago. Afterwards, he went home, called his mom and cried. He said he was not going back. The kids did not listen nor respect him. 45 minutes was all it took.

lol, you really do have to keep going personal in an attempt to keep others quiet to slow down debate. Those Alinsky tactics never die I see....

Since I am frequently attacked for using "Ailinsky tactics", maybe I should read him. I never heard of him til I started posting on here.

Lennie has a job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

lol, first it was personal attacks, now strawmen arguments. How many of the 13 basic Alinksy rules have you used in just one article? rofl......

"but private schools charge tuition"

Public schools charge involuntary tuition whether or not you attend.

Private schools charge less tuition per capita.

Guido, have you seen the tuition of some of the private North shore schools? As well as tuition, there are fees for text books, sports participation, and a number of smaller things.

Hmmmm, now you are seeing conspiracy theories? Just continue on with the personal attacks. It's a shame though. There were a couple threads where we were actually having an honest discussion. Oh well, maybe next time.

Where's the personal attack Lennie? I would question any adult who uses teenager's terms.

Isn't there a third option? To be pro-union and not "blind" as you put it? The black and white mentality in this country is choking off our public discourse and I wish you would stop.

Finally! Someone who "gets it"! Not only nurses, and most other support staff in short supply but psychologists in particular. Only 200 or so for the entire district. So many kids are special needs and by law each must be tested to determine which if any program he/she is to shuttles into for that year. Law also dictates that these student be re-evaluated within a short time frame. Each write up is pages long. Hours are taken taken for evaluations, staffings and often due process hearings. Even if each psychologist worked 24/7, 365 days a year there would never be enough time to catch up much less take on new cases. Each psychologist has thousands of kids as their individual case load. The board is rarely in compliance with the government on these issues....another dirty little secret.

26k for extracurriculars? You don't teach math, do you?

Since CPS has a staggering deficit, I would not anticipate getting smaller class sizes.

Guido...you apparently don't understand the math...average means they take all the salaries add them up and divide it by the total number of staff members. So, yes, $50,000 is the average, and most do extras to earn more. That's where the 70k comes from because the extras are included in their salary. Plus you have to remember this is a k-12 district and high school teachers typically earn a higher salary. Every area for teachers is mostly in a staggering deficit...still doesn't mean you need or should attempt to teach 40+ students per class.

I understand the math perfectly. I took the 76k average, subtracted your purported number of 50k to arrive at an average extracurricular bump of 26k.

Your claim of 26k for extracurriculars is preposterous.

When you look at pay at the High School level, the numbers that people throw around often includes pay for coaching football and other major sports. Coaching at the High School level is a major committment of time and is considered to be separate from teaching work.

Many area schools hire coaches who don't even teach at the school.