yes! let's cause 'upheaval' for everyone.....just to prove a point. and that point is? that 'accidents' however 'painful' just cant be accepted. we must live in a 'risk free ' world!! .and if that means just closing everything to live in that fantasy world ...then so be it!

Calm down b.....Just because they petition DCFS to do so, doesn't mean it will happen. Based on how long DCFS is taking with their investigation, I believe they are taking a thorough look at everything that goes on at Wesley. If they feel it is unsafe (not just because of the tragedy), then they will close them down. Maybe those reaching out to DCFS have stories that paint Wesley in a different picture than all those who are defending them. They aren't asking to close everything, just a center that might not be safe.

Accidents happen - skinned knees, bumps and bruises, etc. A 4 year olds death isn't an accident - it's neglect. One of the employees admitted in the investigation they knew Vicente was prone to wandering off, so the thought of no one being directly responsible for him is neglect, in my opinion.

My child was at Wesley for over 3yrs, the teachers are mostly great & care for the children very well, like everywhere some better than others, the pre school director Jeanne Harman was efficient but not liked among quite a few parents, if the boy was not confident around water or could not swim, either he should have stayed back at the classrooms or a teacher assigned to his care when out of Wesley grounds. My child loved been at Wesley & had lot's of fun, especially the summer camp programme, though a confident & able swimmer, I made sure teachers were aware of any concerns I had with my child & his capabilities.

The Glenview Police need to Re-Open that case and see if either or all of those people (that were allegedly watching Vincente Cardenas) were using their smart phones, checking Facebook, sending text messages, etc. Someone, if not ALL OF THEM need to be held accountable for the drowning death of that 4 year old boy.

Wesley Child Care Center SHOULD LOSE THEIR LICENSE, SHUT DOWN, AND THE GLENVIEW POLICE NEED TO BRING CHARGES AGAINST THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE....PERIOD !

Why don't people use their REAL names when posting blogs ? Hiding something ?

My heart breaks for the Cardenas family. My children were at the pool that day, and the whole thing is terrifying. However, Wesley is a wonderful program that has helped children and their families for years. The teachers love the children, and the organization is well organized and run with efficiency and heart. Vicente's drowning was a horrible accident. It is possible that Wesley was negligent as far as their pool policy goes. However, the idea of closing Wesley because of this accident is absurd. Wesley should be forced to examine and change their safety policies regarding camp and swimming, and that is what they have been doing since this tragedy. I understand parents' anger, fear and frustration, but this is ridiculous.

I hope this doesn't turn into a mob mentality.
People are upset and have a right to be. But to go after the whole program with pitchforks will not bring little Vicente back. The Wesley Center is as well run as any center I have seen. They clearly dropped the ball on the swimming safety policy, and that should be addressed and investigated. The idea of shutting down the center is overkill and will do more harm than good.

I was at a pool in Niles last week, they have two slides one for 48" and taller and a much shorter one. I noticed that they had a guard not only at the top but also at the bottom of the slides, my son not used to this asked "why is there a guy standing at the bottom?" Of course all the kids using the slide were different sizes, ages and swim ability and the guard would help the younger ones to stand afterwards. The water play slide at Roosevelt has always been a concern of mine, it dumps the kids hard and to deep. I have not been to Roosevelt all summer because I was so deeply saddened/affected by what happened but in previous years there was never a guard at the bottom. It seems that the bottom of this slide is right when and where the day care worker lost Vicente and sight of him, you cannot in that situation turn your head for even a second! To know that Vicente was four and not in a life jacket, to know that Vicente was found by other children, to know that his body was already bloated with water for the time he was under, to know that the lifeguards panicked and a mom who happened to be a nurse jumped in to do CPR, is to know to much. There is no greater responsibility than taking care of our or others children. Accidents happen yes but this could have been avoided, Wesley and Roosevelt are both to blame. How a little boy could drowned surrounded by 700+ people and within arms reach of many is something our society needs to think about. J. Cohen

To J Cohen.
I agree with most of your post, but want to clarify what I think is a mistake in the facts. Vicente was not in the slide area at Roosevelt with the height requirements where older children go. He was at the slide that is part of the toddler area. They do not have lifeguards manning that area. My child was in Vicente's group. They were with the small children. Somehow (and this is still a tragic mystery) Vicente got away from that area. I just wanted to clarify the misconception that he was by the slides where the older kids play.

Oops - I meant to say that they do not have lifeguards posted at the bottom of the toddler/small child slide. They do have lifeguards in that general area.

To J Cohen. Sorry about that. My mistake. That is very interesting.
I feel sick to my stomach every time I think about it. It is unimaginably
heartbreaking for all involved - especially the Cardenas family.

Have they confirmed that the adults responsible for Vincente that day dismissed? Those people need to be held responsible - all of them. Every person that decided that it was OK for the kids to not have life vests on - all of them should have been dismissed and should face the music.

But as for the parents filing this petition.... WHY is it that they havent all pulled their kids out of Wesley? If you feel that the overall school is responsible, then why do you drop your kids off there everyday?

I'm happy with Wesley overall, and I trust the teachers that interact with my daughter daily. I feel awful that there were some people employed by the school that exhibited TERRIBLE judgement, but closing the school will not create a positive impact in the community.

I dont think Joanna or Patch needs to PROVE that there are parents petitioning - it's a news story not an indictment. I cant verify the number, but I can tell you that I know of two families that were leaving messages for other parents, saying that we need to 'take action'. It's not surprising that people want to channel their energy/anger/fear into something - I just dont personally think this is a constructive way to rally the community for change.

Again, it baffles me when I see the children of these parents at Wesley.... still enrolled.

My approach? Take this as a lesson learned that there is NO SAFETY IN NUMBERS!

I've told every parent that I know that this kid died due to the 'herd mentality'. Somewhere between 1-3 Wesley teachers or volunteers made the ridiculous choice to let 4 yr old kids in the water without vests, and the other adults followed the HERD, and assumed that it would all be alright and they were tragically wrong.

Maybe I would have made the same mistake if I was there that day. Maybe I would have MOOOOOed like the rest of them. We all make stupid mistakes as parents, but I'll be sure to never make this one.

My new approach is this: NEVER sign a permission slip for a potentially dangerous situation for my child. If she cannot swim from one side of the pool to the other, then she has no business being without a life preserver or her *parent. I'm also going to check the adult to child ratio on all field trips moving forward.

What happened at Wesley that day could have happened in ANY school. It is individuals that make bad choices, therefore we have to educate every parent and every care taker that if you feel like something *might not be safe, then it isnt.

It would be interesting to see if the policies, lifejackets for kids that can't swim well, same colored shirts..., are followed at other camps and day care centers. I don't think Wesley should be held to a different standard than anyone else. They should be investigated to the same standards as everyone else.

I think there is also some responsibility on the part of the pool staff - did they ever see this as a risk? I also think there is some responsibility on the part of the parents - did they questions the procedures followed by Wesley? Knowing there son didn't swim well did the insist he wear a lifejacket? Did they ask how the children are managed?

Is Wesley the only negligent party here?

My child went t Wesley daycare a couple of years ago and he loved it there! Still talks about it.
I was very uncomfortable when they went to the pool, i did not want him to go. I was told by Wesley staff that in this case I should buy him a life jacket . I did , and he was wearing it all the times they went to Roosevelt pool.
I strongly believe it should be a mandatory,
It makes me sick when I think about this tragedy, this should not have happened

Will someone please tell me, does anyone know for sure exactly how this tragedy happened? Is the investigative report public info.? I have heard so many rumors. My child was friends with Vicente and was there when he drowned. However, he didn't see anything. He didn't even see a commotion after Vicente was pulled out of the pool. He had no idea what happened. I have spoken to other parents whose kids were there and none of the kids realized that anything had happened. How can this be? I am very confused. It makes me think that Vicente must have been found in an area away from all of his classmates. My child says that the teachers/counselors at Wesley made a circle around all of the kids in the pool (the little ones in the toddler area like my child and Vicente) and that the kids had to stay in the middle of the circle. If this is true, than that was a policy. However, I do not know the details of what went on that day.

I wanted to continue my last post:
My child says that the teachers/counselors at Wesley made a circle around all of the kids in the pool (the little ones in the toddler area like my child and Vicente) and that the kids had to stay in the middle of the circle. If this is true, than that was a policy. However, I do not know the details of what went on that day. I have found Wesley to be a great program. I have not seen any sign of carelessness or lack of structure and safety. I know everyone is looking for someone to blame, and I understand that. However, do we really know that Wesley was grossly negligent? Do we know what really happened that day? Does this tragic accident mean the whole Wesley program that has safely taken care of thousands of kids for many years is unsafe? I know the Wesley teachers and they love the children they take care of. They loved Vicente who had been there a couple of years. This is especially tragic for Vicente's family, but don't forget that it is tragic for the teachers/counselors as well. Wesley is not just an institution - it is a non profit institution made up of people who love children. Of course they have to be accountable and make serious changes to the way they handle swimming for preschoolers. They are doing that. Do we really need to demonize them and shut them down? They provide a tremendous service for countless families every day for years.

DCFS WILL weigh all factors. The bottom line is Wesley Day Care is Negligent! -
The day Vincente drowned a staff member said they "allegedly" turned their head to answer a question from someone else and Vincente was "gone" the next thing they knew was the missing child had drowned!
What steps did Wesley take to locate Vincente before he was pulled from the bottom of the pool after they knew he was missing?? - NONE !!
I understand we need to look ahead.. not live in the problem, rather the solution however.... We need to ban together for Vincente, his family and stay strong for what is right.

After reading the report, I now understand some things that didn't make sense to me before. Vicente had to have walked out of the kiddie pool o get to the pool where he drowned. He must have walked out of the pool after going down the slide. If so, he would have been walking past the pool installations for the toddlers which would have made it harder to see him. The teacher who was by the slide watching the kids was apart for the other teachers who had formed a semi-circle around the kids in the shallow water. Those teachers would have been watching the kids within the circle. When the teacher watching the slide Vicente had just gone down turned to answer another child's questions, she missed Vicente leaving the pool. I am sure there were many kids around him that weren;'t the campers who were being watched in the circle by the other teachers. Vicente would have had to walk over to the deeper water pool where the older kids swim because that is where they found him. Now I understand why my child who was a friend of Vicente didn't see anything and why Vicente could drown even though my child said said that the teachers formed a circle that he had to stay in. This is a heartbreaking tragedy. I understand why they did not have the 4 and 5 year olds wear life vests in the shallow area (which in hindsight might have been a mistake), but Vicente drowned in the deep pool and that is not where the 4 and 5 year olds were swimming. I am just fleshing out the tragedy.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the report, but I was under the impression he was found in the main pool, not the lap/diving pool, because the depth was a maximum of 5-5.5 feet. So I don't know if he got out of the pool. I wish the maps they mention in the report had been released, it would clear that up. Also, being able to see where the teachers were positioned would help in figuring out how Vicente was missed.

I work at a summer camp program in the suburbs. There are no DCFS standards for summer camps. So is it their fault? Did the parents of the children who attended Wesley not know the children were going swimming that day? Did you not know they were going to a crowded public pool? I'm sure you did. Did any of you ask questions before the children went? Should you be judged on your parenting? No, I am not GOD, who am I to judge? But then again, unless you are GOD how dare you judge. Not one of you were there! For those of you who insist on pointing fingers, may you one day be judged in this fashion. How do you think these teachers feel? You don't think they have to live the rest of their life with this. They were there! When I heard this story I looked at our own camp and my stomach dropped just thinking about this happening to one of our children. This is not a high paying field we are in. If you took time to look you would see this is one of the lowest paid careers. We did it because we love children! It is rewarding to know that we make a difference in children's lives!!!!! This was a horrible heart wrenching tradegy. I have two children and could not image something bad ever happening to them but close down this center? Really? Why don't we close down all center's then and let parents stay home with their children and raise them and when something goes wrong only you are to blame. O but we cant do that, how would we afford the finer things in life?

Bottom line: I do not know this child or family but I am a mother and also a teacher. My heart goes out to this family and any other family that loses a child. After reading this article I can see it from a mother's point of view but also a teacher's point of view. If we all sat back once in a while and put ourselves in someone else's shoes maybe the world wouldn't be in such a horrible place right now.

Update: as of 9/14/12, per Carolina Bono, DCFS investigation is still pending and anticipated time frame is open-eneded.

Passing 90 days and no end in sight? I sure hope their investigation is much more in-depth than the Glenview Police one. I'm still wondering if anything was ever presented to a grand jury - it was mentioned that the Glenview Park District basically ignored the subpoena from the grand jury for the internal investigation. This isn't a Wesley matter, but what is/was the Park District hiding? And what are the repercussions for blatantly disregarding it?

Thanks for that explaination. Do you think anything is being presented to a grand jury, or was that just talk?

Unrelated Update: A few months ago, my family reported an incident to DCFS that occurred at Wesley Child Care earlier this year. The details of the incident are not so important except to know that 2 well-intentioned teachers used a disciplinary tool that both violated DCFS guidelines and Illinois Law. We reported the events and expected it to be noted in the file of the center. What we NEVER expected to hear was that Wesley denied it ever happened. Let me state that again. WESLEY DENIED THAT IT EVER HAPPENED. To add insult to injury, they interviewed the 2 teachers involved and apparently they also denied it happened. I could reasonably expect that DCFS may interpret the action not to be in violation but for it to be outright denied left us shocked, disgusted and unfortunately you cannot appeal the findings. If they are willing to cover up a seemingly lesser violation, doesn’t it make you wonder what they might do in the wake of the death of a child?

120 days and still nothing from DCFS? So sad.

I don't know why anyone assumes that Wesley is just continuing as if nothing happened. This was a devastating tragedy for the Cardenas. Don't you relize that it is also a devastating tragedy for the teachers who loved Vicente and everyone at Wesly? These are all human beings. People are trying to categorize Wesley as some kind of careless, heartless institution. That is just wrong, wrong, wrong. This was a horrible accident and you'd better believe that everyone involves agonizes over it every day and has done a great deal of soul searching. That includes people who run that organization. They screwed up and it had tragic consequences, but to have a mob mentality and look for someone to blame while painting the Wesley staff as demons does everyone a disservice.

I think the heartless part comes from their inability/lack of willingness to tell the family specifics about Vicente's day (NOT about the tragedy). Vicente's uncle has mentioned it numerous times in the past how little information was given to the family in the wake of the tragedy. Personally, I was disappointed in the PD investigation, many questions weren't asked and a few times they fed information to the witnesses.

I disagree with the accident view, an accident is a kid falling and bumping his knee, but when you are dealing with 4-5 year olds in a pool it's NEGLIGENCE.

5 months and still nothing from DCFS? Did I miss the release of the report? Does anyone know if the family heard anything? I feel so bad for the family, starting with Halloween, the holidays must be so tough, especially the first year. (not that it ever gets easier, though)

I hope the teachers at Wesley are enjoying the holiday season. I am sure the Cardenas family is not. I hope at the very least, they think about that family all day as they enjoy the holiday with their loved ones.

I changed my e-mail address, but I previously posted under A Concerned Parent. Having requested and read the report, I agree, A Glenview Parent, some pretty sobering things in the report. A few quick things that stood out to me, 1) While a signed permission slip for swimming was presented, not ONCE during all the interviews, both police or DCFS, was it asked if they knew whether or not Vicente could swim, 2) "although the Medical Examiner ruled it as 'drowning by accident' it does not mean there was no neglect/inadequate supervision that took place." and 3) "it is possible that the teachers intentionally did not pay close attention to him in the pool".

I just heard Wesley’s insurance company has determined Wesley, its teachers and staff, were in no part responsible for the death of little Vicente Cardenas. Despite the chill crawling up the back of my spine I must have been wrong to assume that when you leave your child with a day care center, they might have to be responsible for your child. I was wrong. Apologies to all the other parents who also shared in the “its not Wesley’s responsibility.” It must give you great comfort to know the center will not be held responsible for the safety of your children.

Obviously they (the insurance company) didn't read either the police report or the DCFS report, because both of those scream negligence. Amazingly they (Wesley) contradicted themselves from what they told the police and what they told DCFS - heck they changed their story in the DCFS report. First all we heard was that no one teacher was responsible for any student - it was a group responsibility - by the end of the DCFS report they specifically identified one teacher being responsible. This whole thing has been a mockery of a sham!

BK- your comments are not only quite overdramatic but way off base. However, you are entitled to them. I encourage you to also focus on PREVENTION. Good luck to you.

My child was there and was friends with Vicente. It could have been my child, and I am haunted by that fact as I am haunted by thoughts of Vicente and his family. I know who the teacher who turned to answer a small child's question and, therefore, did not see when Vicente left the area and went into the deeper end. The teacher is a mother of a very young child and a boundlessly loving and caring woman. She loved Vicente and loved all of the children she cared for. This was a tragic mistake and any parent who thinks it could not have happened to them is fooling themselves. Punishing this woman or Wesley will not bring Vicente back. The school has already examined every aspect of that day and how to safely proceed going forward. I will never understand why otherwise reasonable people look for someone or some organization to demonize in the face of tragedies. I understand the horror and rage that this could happen. I will never understand how people lose sight of the fact that this was a tragedy for everybody involved. Don't lose your humanity and forget that that teacher has to live with this for the rest of her life, as do the Cardenas's. Trust me, Wesley has not gotten off unscathed just because the center hasn't been closed down.

Also, it is important to note that legally, the word negligence implies that one should have known there would be a drowning and did not prevent it. SOme will think this was negligence, some will not. But when discussing it, at least be aware that tragic mistakes and negligence are not the same thing.

Why so much vitriol? Nothing any of you says here really has any bearing on this case does it? Why not spare everyone the screaming match and just agree to disagree and move on. I'm sure there's more you could be doing for either party involved in this case than arguing on internet message boards. Your time and energy are best spent elsewhere.

i'm sorry BK but aren't you the same BK who said "I'm sitting here, SHAKING, wondering if a crazed parent like yourself (a glenview parent) is going to take revenge on Wesley." are you insane? i agree with you that policy should change but you can't just move on without owning up for the failures.

BK - I know all of this hit close to home for you - so I didnt interpret your comments as if you didnt care about the situation. You said on another board that you were looking into why IL laws were so lax on pool safety. What did you find out? What are the pending changes at Roosevelt pool?

Glenview Parent/Mom in Glenview - Did you not leave your child as Wesley after reporting them to DCS? You accused Wesley of abusing your child and then left her there for a month right? Is that not insane?

A GLENVIEW PARENT, what do you mean they denied it? Also it seems pretty clear here that some parents just want to bury their heads in the sand on this death. Pretty sad.

Also, Is there anything we can do for the family? Does anybody know if the school set up a memorial fund or charity for the little boy? I can't find anything online.

You may contact the family spokesperson, Val Gurvits at (617) 928-1804 direct.

The school did not set up a memorial fund for the boy.