What's Next for the School Bus Bullies?

Lexi G. July 13, 2012 at 01:50 pm

Regardless of if you are married, single, divorced, working or not, if you CHOSE to have children then you need to make sure you ARE around. I recently got married, but prior to that I was a single mom, working full-time, but I still made time for my daughter, and still taught her right from wrong, good from bad, etc. Many things are learned from personal experience as well, but you still need to guide them. The point is, parents made a conscious decision to have a child, therefore it is their responsibility to raise them. If a parent can't be around for their child, or choose not to be around, that is still the parents fault.

Josh K July 13, 2012 at 04:06 pm

The notion of empathy is hard for a child to grasp. However, when parents miss opportunities to demonstrate empathy, either by example or by lesson, the parents are doing their children a great disservice. When we were kids, Mr. and Mrs. Cleaver, or Mr. and Mrs. Mitchell, or Sheriff Andy, or Mr. and Mrs. Brady, or even Dr. and Mrs. Huxtable provided role models to us of how parents dealt with their children's churlishness. Unfortunately, the sitcom--as a reflection of how we thought as a people life should be lived--really no longer exists, except as a platform to demonstrate how out of it Mom and Dad are.

Dave July 13, 2012 at 04:15 pm

What is your definition of "good" or "right?"

Dave July 13, 2012 at 07:27 pm

Josh, that's an excellent point. Today's cultural elites ridicule the old television shows because "no one really lived that way." That may or may not be true, but that is not the point. The point is that the parents in those shows -- the mother and the father -- were portrayed as examples of ethical behavior. Role models are few and far between in the modern popular culture.

Judy S. Freedman, M.S.W., L.C.S.W. July 13, 2012 at 07:40 pm

Josh, Stay tuned for my next next blog, "Teaching Children Empathy." Parents demonstrating and modeling empathy is the most powerful way to teach our kids.

Lexi G. July 14, 2012 at 02:47 am

Good and right go hand in hand. That which is morally good or acceptable is something that is morally right. Assuming one is not a sociopath, humans use their feelings to decide what is right or good. As I stated before, if you do something that makes you feel awful, it probably isn't 'good' or 'right'. God didn't teach me the difference between good and bad...actions, example and experience did. If you hand a toddler a bible they aren't going to just gain the knowledge of what is right or wrong.

wandering July 14, 2012 at 11:37 am

yes, absoulutely the parents should be involved in the bullying prevention and community service.

wandering July 14, 2012 at 11:43 am

bottom line, the child has parents and the parents should be brought into the picture and be actively involved in the anti bullying. where do you suppose the child learned the behavior?

wandering July 14, 2012 at 11:47 am

Before committing bullies to a juvenille detention facility, there shouldprobably be some investigation into the home life of the child. Where do you think the child learned the behavior? Not all children grow up with loving adults to teach them right from wrong and to express empathy to others. Some children are at the least ignored, yelled at or picked on, and at the worst subjected to verbal, emotional and physical abuse. The parents of these children may not care at all or may be bullies themselves....I know some adult bullies....perhaps the apples didn't fall to far from the tree here.

Independence666 July 14, 2012 at 02:53 pm

It's interesting that terms such as morality, conscience, right, wrong, etc. are being used by folks who say they have no belief in God.  I'm truly interested to know how any of these notions have any meaning at all to an authentic atheist.  
If there is no God, then there is no eternity, and if there is no eternity, then all we have is this life.  So, why in the world would an intelligent atheist follow any rules created by other people?  If there is no God, then the smartest folks will do whatever they can to get ahead and be the most comfortable, rules be damned!  If we only have this life, then any sort of charity or kindness towards others is foolishness, unless you stand to get something out of it.

Dave July 14, 2012 at 07:50 pm

"Assuming one is not a sociopath, humans use their feelings to decide what is right or good" -- There are cultures in which people "feel" that women who dress provocatively should be killed. There are cultures in which people "feel" that killing a woman for such reasons is beyond reprehensible. Both cultures are guided by how they "feel." Which one is morally correct, or good?

Sally July 14, 2012 at 10:26 pm

"Without God, and the threat of eternal punishment or reward, their is absolutely no good reason for a person to have any morals at all" as quoted by Independence666
This is one of the stupidest things I have ever read and validates all of my negative feelings about religion. Truly good people do good because it feels good and is right. If the only reason someone does a good deed is out of fear or self motivation, how "good" can that person really be?

Dave July 15, 2012 at 12:04 am

It has occurred to me that what people call "bullying" may just be a natural part of the evolutionary process. Stronger, more assertive individuals are probably more likely to have more and stronger offspring. What some call "bullying" may just be a manifestation of nature's way of strengthening the species. Just a thought.

Jim Beaumont July 15, 2012 at 03:08 am

I know everyone today feels this is a complex problem.A few simple solutions:
Be a parent and discipline your child, I know it is somtimes uncomfortable and hard to do. Know who your child hangs with, as well as their parents. Do not let your kids roam the streets in the evening. Be a parent provide a place for the kids to be together in a safe enviorment. Wake up call... If you are not doing this contrary to what you think your little darling is a problem for all of us. I see a bad kid, I see a parent who needs to step it up.

Lexi G. July 15, 2012 at 04:28 am

Sally, I completely agree. Okay, Dave, let's follow the bible instead of how we feel. Here are some excellent examples.
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) "Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:15 NAB) "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) "A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) "But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst." (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB) And how about the Texas Christian woman that stoned 2 of her children to death in 2003 because God told her to? I'd rather teach my children than slap a book in their face.

Independence666 July 15, 2012 at 12:58 pm

Sally, if this is indeed, "one of the stupidest things you've ever read", then either you haven't thought it through, or you just don't get it. Your comment about "truly good people do good because it feels good and right", is a very naïve statement. It implies that all people "feel" as you do. There are countless examples that demonstrate that this is not the case. Just take a look at Adolph Hitler or Timothy McViegh, for instance. Both of these men "felt" that they were doing what was "good" and "right" to them.
No, our "feelings" cannot be used to define good or evil. Following this sort of relative morality is very dangerous and will only lead to disaster. In order to thrive on this earth, we all need to follow the laws given to us by the transcendent God who created all things. Just think how much safer and more pleasent this world would be to live in if everyone on earth chose to follow the Ten Commandments. There would be no more lying, envy, adultry, stealing, killing, etc.

Brian July 16, 2012 at 03:53 pm

Independence, you keep talking about the fact that God needs to be the end all to live a good life. I don't break rules because I don't want to spend my life in prison. I acknowledge that in our society I have to behave a certain way in order to stay living in said society. Certainly I am not worried about heaven and hell so my actions aren't confined by biblical repercussions. I don't murder and steal (etc) for two main reasons. I treat others as I would like to be treated on all scales and society has agreed that if I kill someone then I go to jail or worse.
You also choose to bring up examples of wrong doings by people who did things they feel. Then you must also be willing to acknowledge people that commit crimes based on the Lord, not the least of which is the crusades. Thou shalt not kill unless you are murdering in my name? John Wayne Gacy was raised catholic, apparently the 10 commandments didn't work on him. You are also saying that only about 35% of the world is living by the only true laws. On top of that you are assuming that all Christians would live exactly by the ten commandments which we know isn't true for the fact that sin exists. Also, according to your faith, no matter what you do wrong will be forgiven if forgiveness is asked for. Why don't you act out impulses? Religion isn't the only basis for good and evil, right and wrong. There are many other, just as powerful, places to learn what is and isn't acceptable.

Dave July 16, 2012 at 04:13 pm

Lexi - I didn't say anything about the Bible or any other religious text, so I'm not sure why you raised that.

Lexi G. July 17, 2012 at 12:25 am

The Bible is the foundation of Christianity.

Independence666 July 17, 2012 at 08:47 am

Brian, apparently you have a chip on your shoulder regarding religion. That's unfortunate, because there is so much wisdom and peace to be found there. That being said, it's interesting that we agree that people typically do the "right thing" to avoid conciquences. You fear man's shunning or punishment, I fear God's. However, when you look at the rewards side of the equation, God offers eternal reward. Man? Not so much.

Brian July 17, 2012 at 11:43 am

See, here's the thing. I don't have a problem with religion. I understand that all of them can do good things for people. Religion in general does manage to teach good things. My problem is that those who follow religions tend to shun any other opinion and look down on those who are different. Your only answers on how to help children and parents is religion, and more specifically Christianity. I say it can work, but there other ways as well. You want to lay blame at secularization without ever saying that there are bad people who are religious as well. Every time someone here points out some bad parts of either the bible or faith, you say we are just finding small examples of the bad. The truth is all you have to do is look around to see both great and awful examples of what religion can do. On the same token you can look just as lightly to see the good and bad in people who don't believe, or believe in a religion.
Sure, there is a chance (I don't believe) that I will end up in purgatory or hell when I die, with my only main fault being a good life, helping others and raising a family but not believing in Jesus. In turn, I don't have to live every day in fear of upsetting a God. My rewards are earthly bound. I get to watch my son grow up and teach him everything I know, I get to help people less fortunate then myself, and do my part to keep the earth livable for my eventual grandchildren. My reward is that I get to witness directly the fruits of my work.

McCloud July 17, 2012 at 12:03 pm

I see too many kids who have no respect for adults, teachers, coaches or other people in authority. They show this in the way they speak to them. This is certainly the fault of their parents, who raise their children with a sense of entitlement. In my childhood, if there was a display of no respect, the child was punished enough for all the other children to see, driving home the message that this behavior is wrong.

Independence666 July 18, 2012 at 08:41 am

Brian, as a non-believer, you had better do all you can to enjoy the earthly rewards you've created for yourself. This life is short so I hope your disappointments (and there will always be some) are few. I also hope that you might reconsider your decision not to believe sometime down the road. You only have this lifetime to choose, and you will be dead much longer than you will be alive. It's a huge gamble.

Stewart Levine July 18, 2012 at 08:51 am

I think the parents should be punished in this case as well because obviously it is an example of their moral failure to allow their children to conduct themselves in public this way.
Public education has mutated into a Soviet Style education system anyways,. It is completely redundant and compartmentalized, and the children that did the bullying were simply victims themselves, taking out their aggression that the <i>system</i> has bestowed upon them, on others as a means of releasing negative energy. Interesting comments I must say. The harder the punishment it is on the parents,

Debbie Simler-Goff July 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

Yes Lexi, and as a society, we need to work harder and right being right and wrong being wrong. There alot of so called gray areas these days that do not give kids a strong sense of moral boundaries.
I wonder if this type of situation would have happened in the 50's? Granted, that era was not perfect, but society as a whole sent a much stronger message of respect for authority etc. The Bible is a good moral guide for such things... it might be important to note that much of American society 'back then' was grounded in what the Holy writ said. Today, sadly, what one person sees as morally correct, another might completely disagree. There used to be much more of a consensus of what was right and wrong... I honestly think this contributes at least partially to the problem with bullying and other issues...

Molly July 18, 2012 at 10:48 am

As in so many problems the cause can vary. Yes, parenting has a large impact (obviously) on a child but there are situations where a child defies everything a parent tries - but those are hopefully the exception. A service program with mentoring guidance will hopefully help these kids. I'm not in favor of the huge explosion in alternative schools. At times I think our mainstream schools have become so homogenized that differences are viewed as malignant. Growing up in a rural but fairly liberal area we had a vast mix of students. Kids with differences were often singled out as odd but in many cases everyone learned to interact successfully. My father, a person most assumed to be a conservative, straight-laced, rigid disciplinarian gave us a big surprise (at his wake). Our family was approached by countless people who had amazing stories to tell of our dad. Hippies, college students & professors, immigrant workers, gay neighbors and everything in between - they all had a story to tell. The upshot was our dad would listen to all views respectfully. He may not have agreed 100% but he treated everyone the same. The only behavior he couldn't stand was dishonesty. I hope I can pass this along to my kids.

JK July 18, 2012 at 01:11 pm

Stewart, Is your comment tongue-in-cheek?
I think the punishment is harsh. The punishment, imho, should have been suspension of bus transportation for a year. If every day of the school year a parent has to sign the child in (e.g., no carpooling or nanny sign-in except in proven case of hardship), the lesson will be learned fairly well. I think 50 hours of community service is perhaps too many though I do like the concept. These aren't victims of Soviet Style education. Negative energy? Sorry, I can't buy it. I also feel similarly when parents let their kids race around in restaurants. Not all restaurants are Playlands, and kids who can't tell the difference need to be taught.

Kathy Oetker August 10, 2012 at 09:10 am

Vincent: This is exactly the thinking that allowed the problem to escalate. Our society should NEVER condone violence of any kind - including verbal.
Next, you'll say "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" or "boys will be boys." As adults, we are to teach and socialize our children to be good people and good citizens. Finally, next time, a student shoots up or blows up a school because they have been bullied and humiliated over and over again, well, kids will be kids..

Kathy Oetker August 10, 2012 at 09:11 am

And some adults need to learn empathy and right from wrong(vincent)

Kathy Oetker August 10, 2012 at 09:13 am

PArents do have a serious responsibility. And yes, I have children. However, there are many more influences are our children then when I grew up.